Such a great podcast! I loved all the ideas and themes covered, a really meaty discussion! So good to hear from Mr. Harleman, who always has really insightful commentary on films. This podcast gave me some new perspectives on the film, and asked some really intriguing questions! I loved it! Unfortunately, I have to agree with the comment made by Alexis. Overall, I was very much disappointed in this film. I am a huge gothic romance nerd, so ever since I heard Del Toro was making one, I was super stoked. There really hasn’t been, what I would consider, an incredible, full blown gothic romance movie, and there still hasn’t, sadly. As you guys discussed, this film is difficult to place into a genre, which isn’t necessarily bad, but I felt ripped off. I would say that it had all the gorgeous trimmings of a gothic romance, but none of its substance. It had the spooky atmosphere as James Harleman put it, with resplendent costumes, dark metaphors (loved the scene with the ants eating the butterflies!), and lots of gorgeous ghastly sights. However, the heart, of what I would consider to be gothic romance was very much missing. The film is an empty shell. Mr. Harleman hit the nail right on the head when he said that true horror is the horror of ideas! So right on. And gothic romance or gothic horror, is dealing with the same thing! It isn’t monsters, ghosts, and supernatural events that are the true horrors, but the horrors of the human heart, and all the ideas that come from within. A gothic romance, then is supposed to terrorize you with all the lusts and deceits of the human soul. There is supposed to be a strong, foreboding sense of doom, an ugly, sickly, unearthly resonance that builds to the terrible climax! The heroine is supposed to be isolated, completely alone, at the mercy of her tormentor(s), trapped in a real life nightmare. As the story builds, terror threatening to overwhelm at ever turn, the climax happens and you are left with the feeling of NOT wanting to know, of NOT wanting to see! Anything but the truth would be preferable, but no, you must look upon it and witness it and experience it. It is the human heart fully unveiled and brought to the light, and it is horrible and wicked, and deeply, grotesquely tragic! True Gothic romance/horror, in short, is meant to break your heart!

This film produced none of these feelings. I never believed in Edith’s peril. She had ghosts on her side, whom she seemed pretty comfortable with, even though they were ghastly sights, and Thomas, though passive, was on her side as well. This movie played everything so safe! There was nothing horrible about it. No risk. No danger. The big reveal of incest was made to seem horrible, but I was just like meh, incest. Big deal. Lucille’s character was probably one of the main highlights, Chastain played her so well, but her portrayal was wasted because of no build up or set up that made you really *feel* the unnerving nature of her insanity and the threat she was to Edith. Edith was always protected no matter what. And probably the main reason being the weakness of Thomas’ character. Such a waste of Hiddleston’s talent! He has the emotional depth and capacity to play a truly dastardly and tragic Byronic hero, but he was insipid and definitely a thirteen year old girl’s fantasy man! He needed to be stronger, he needed to hurt Edith more, be more of a threat! In that scene where he lays into Edith for her book, I wish that had been his true feelings! But no, you know the whole time that he doesn’t mean it and is only doing it because her father forced his hand, so once again, no danger, nothing to be worried about. Nothing that a romantic letter can’t solve! I wanted to see a Thomas Sharpe who was fully, one hundred percent manipulating and seducing Edith, who was selfish, only caring about his machine, a kind of man who would be part of a plot to leech off young women for their money and then kill them! But instead we get a doe-eyed dreamer who is being manipulated himself. And the film didn’t even go into that, the co-dependency and self-hatred/self-love of his incest with Lucille! There was so much darkness and complexity Del Toro could have unearthed with such a relationship, but again, he played it safe. Now, I have no qualms about Thomas Sharpe being redeemed in the end, but Edith should have been made to work much harder at that, and the process to his redemption should have been more of a struggle, so that when he *did* choose to go against his sister, his inevitable death would have been truly tragic! After such a long, hard road he was saved, but little too late!

There is so much that I could pick apart and criticize about this film, but that is the main thing, the lack of anything truly horrific within it. Actually, the only parts I felt achieved these aspects and ideas were the scene of her father’s death and then Edith having to identify his body. The first scene was appropriately grotesque, and the latter scene appropriately tragic. Other than that, though, I couldn’t take anything seriously. Most especially the end, where it turns into a knife chasing/stabbing extravaganza.

Now, one of the things I didn’t even think about that James Harleman mentioned, was the sexuality in this film. I am not very familiar with horror films (my taste ranging more in line with gothic romance novels), but that was interesting about the conservative ideas about sexuality! That the virgin is the one who lives. And how Crimson Peak switched that on its head, where it was the “loss” of virginity within the sacred confines of marriage that saves Thomas ultimately. I really loved that concept, and I didn’t think of it that way! I was actually annoyed because I thought it was just an excuse for fangirls to get a *look* at Hiddleston, but now I see the sexuality in a different light. It is a more of a redemptive and purifying, where the consummation of marriage is what saves Thomas! Very cool. Then, speaking of sexuality, I also thought it was a very interesting question put forth about the incest. Asking, why was the incest so repulsive to most audiences? Why were they freaked out about it? Especially now with this whole sexual “revolution” of our culture, where things are being redefined. What, in light of that, is so bad, then, about incest? I think *that* would be a really interesting discussion to have with a group!

Oh, and before I end my very long comment, I do have a question! I disagree with Harleman’s assessment that this film has female empowerment. With what Alexis Johnson outlined, I don’t really see Edith Cushing’s character as strong, but why (this question is for everyone) in order for the female character to be empowered, do the male characters need to be weak, passive dunces? I thought the weakness of the male characters truly hindered this film rather than helped it. Just my two cents! 😉

Anyway, excellent podcast! I just wanted to share some of my thoughts on the film and why I was so disappointed in it, and that ultimately, I find myself disillusioned with Del Toro’s work, but I enjoyed listening to all your thoughts on the film. It is good for Christians to delve into the darker genres because there is so much there that could be gleaned about human nature and redemptive history! Keep up the good work, guys!